Saturday, September 17, 2011

Response to Sharing Your Faith with a Oneness Pentecostal

Answering Gregory Boyd's
"Sharing Your Faith with a Oneness Pentecostal"

by Mark. W. Bassett
Pastor, Life Tabernacle United Pentecostal Church, Milford, CT

Introduction

Recently, while perusing the internet, I came across an article written by a gentleman who once attended a United Pentecostal Church, and had left the church. The article is Sharing Your Faith with a Oneness Pentecostal (an article in two parts from the Witnessing Tips column of the Christian Research Journal, Winter 1991 and Spring 1992) and was written by Gregory A. Boyd.
In the article, he seemed disposed to serve as a spokesperson for a presumed body of persons who might have been held captive by doctrinal errors, and espoused testimony of one who had personally escaped from error.

I am sorry for this individual's loss of sound doctrine, and will stand with his church in praying for his opportunity to be saved. However, this article presents an occasion to examine some arguments against the Apostolic doctrine, and the Church at large. Mr. Boyd's viewpoint, and the acceptance of that viewpoint by a group that are largely received as "Christian apologists" suggest that the opinions expressed in the article might be regularly propagated, if not commonly held. Thus, there is a likelihood that Oneness Apostolics will encounter these objections, or perhaps even direct derivatives when witnessing, preaching and testifying. Mr. Boyd is a professor of theology at a midwestern school, and may be challenged on these issues from the standpoint of Bible theology, and by questioning his representation of what Oneness Pentecostals believe.
In this article, I would like to answer the issues addressed by Mr. Boyd. Generally, it seems that the extent of Mr. Boyd's understanding of the doctrines which he says he has rejected was very limited. But before we can dismiss the individual as one who "went out from among us but was not of us" as is so easy to do, we must remember that there are perhaps thousands of individuals who are, at some time, in a state of confusion or partial understanding, and perhaps do not know it.
Observing the manner in which people of tribal backgrounds, utterly unfamiliar with the gospel story are today receiving the Holy Ghost in great numbers, we are reminded that doctrinal purity is hardly a precondition, or even a guarantee of the initial experience of salvation. Near you in the pew of your own church are many people to whom God is ministering in their uncompleted state, through teaching, preaching and exhortation of the Word of God.

As we evaluate Mr. Boyd's statements, let's anticipate the same remarks coming from individuals whose lives were the target of the "seed stealer" in the formative months or years of their Christian experience. An interpersonal hurt, a disappointment, or difficult trials can all be reasons for persons to look elsewhere for comfort, and even turn against the ministry and, at the same time, sound doctrine. Our lives are integral, and holistic, and we who have received the fullness of truth as well as the strength to of overcomers ought to be very piteous towards those who are weak and vulnerable. Perhaps our teaching ought to be brought into account in some cases.

The Pentecostal's Attitude ...

In his article, Mr. Boyd addresses:
  • Areas of distinction between Oneness and Trinitarian theologies
  • His perception of attitudes among the Oneness people with whom he was familiar
  • His assessment of the weaknesses in the understanding and experience of the average Oneness Pentecostal.
He lists four theological areas of " error ... which "Oneness Pentecostals hold, ... that are especially weak and open to effective refutation. Quoted from the article, they are:
  1. their belief that tongues is the necessary sign of salvation;
  2. their denial of the pre-existence of Christ;
  3. their belief that Jesus was Himself the Father;
  4. their belief that baptism "in Jesus' name" is necessary for salvation.
Attempting to summarize, Mr. Boyd writes:
"Perhaps the most important thing to remember when dialoguing with Oneness Pentecostals is to demonstrate to them the unconditional love and acceptance of Jesus Christ. The most problematic aspect of my theology when I was a Oneness Pentecostal was the belief that no one other than us Oneness Pentecostals was going to heaven. Trinitarian Christians simply were not saved! So every time I met Trinitarian Christians who clearly reflected the loving presence of Jesus in their lives by the way they related to me, I confronted more strong evidence that my theology could not be true"


Comment: There are several highlights here. First, Mr. Boyd supposes that a sense and knowledge of God's love is felt by Oneness peoples to be the exclusive property of the saved. We might speculate that, in his own mind, this feature and this feature alone was the paramount element of salvation. Bible believing Christians read, believe and observe that God's mercy precedes his dealing with individuals in this era. People's vastly different ideologies are rightly convinced by both the word and experience that God is primarily merciful, and see in the gospel an unilateral or unconditional act of reconciliation. It seems strange to imagine that anyone would identify emotional comfort, and acceptance of this wonderful aspect of God's character as equivalent to holding sound doctrine. Almost certainly Mr. Boyd's own security and salvation were not established during these encounters.

Those who are adamant teachers of doctrine ought to be warned that perfected Christians are fulfilled, joyful, and trusting Christians, who believe that God loves them without having to take a doctrine test. Perfected, or whole Christians are not emotionally susceptible to envy a peace which they themselves lack.


Mr. Boyd: "... confront their misunderstandings of what Trinitarians believe. Like most Oneness Pentecostals, I was firmly convinced that Trinitarians worshipped three separate gods and that they didn't "really" believe that Jesus Christ was Himself the Lord God Almighty. This is how Oneness Pentecostals are indoctrinated to perceive Trinitarians. Hence, when dialoguing with Oneness Pentecostals it is vitally important to be utterly empathic about your own belief that there is _only one God_ -- not three -- and that Jesus Christ is _the incarnation of this one God."


Comment: (At first glance, it might seem that Mr. Boyd is saying that Oneness people are in fact, poorly educated Trinitarians. He seems to think that, if they knew what Trinitarians believed, It would be identical to their own beliefs. However, I don't suppose that he would long agree in that position, seeing that his mentors at CRI hold Oneness Pentecostals to be heretics.)

In some respects, I agree with Mr. Boyd. Among Oneness Pentecostals are a number of people who are not educated as to the various notions which are held by those who would claim to be Trinitarians. In fact, from the "New England Trinitarianism" of Bushnell, where the economy of identities is Apostolic, to the radical trinitarianism of Swaggart, Copeland, and Hagin, Trinitarians are hardly uniform in belief. Orthodoxy dictates that there is a plural of "persons" in the godhead while the creedal formulation of Nicea refers to Jesus Christ as "One Lord ... God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God". So, needless to say, Oneness Pentecostals may very well be not at all informed concerning what a particular Trinitarian conceives as the godhead. Depending upon the extent to which the scriptures have provided illumination on that subject, a self described Trinitarian may very well hold a oneness belief. For example, when I discovered the true deity of Jesus Christ in scripture, and expressed it to casual Trinitarian relatives, they said, "Of course, we believe there is no other God but Jesus also!". A trained Trinitarian theologian would have corrected them, however. The discussion of "persons" in the godhead is irrational without a determination of whether the person advocating "persons" intends "persona" (appearance or face as in 2 Cor 2:10), or hupostasis( foundation or basic identity as in Heb 1:3). Either way, it is impossible to propose a division of the eternal being of God without approaching technical polytheism.

It is at this point that the issue is clarified. Oneness Pentecostals should not be indoctrinated that Trinitarians "believe" in three gods, but rather that they make extra-scriptural expressions, and abide by creeds and post-apostolic formulations which emphasize an essentially plural deity. As a result, issues arise concerning:
  • Worship given to the Father apart from Jesus Christ
  • The identity of the indwelling Spirit
  • The Christian baptismal formula
  • The Identification of the Church
Extra-scriptural terminology, and the tendency to entrust the formal expression of spiritual truths to post-apostolic councils, rather than the appointed Apostolic witnesses causes these imbalances, and many more. Thus, Apostolic Christians are encouraged to know the nature of the godhead based on the clear statements of scripture, and admonished to avoid interpreting scripture based on influences other than the scripture itself, and prayerful meditation in the word. In a very serious sense, acceptance of a formal creed and unity with those who espouse it are a powerful definition of one's belief. Whatever Trinitarians do actually "believe", the Apostolic will agree with the Apostles on this and other profoundly important matters.

In John 4, involved in a discussion with a woman whose familiarity with tradition far exceeded here expectation for true understanding, Jesus presented a startling contrast: "We know what we worship". By reason, and statistical evidence, the Trinitarian dogma allows for numerous means by which to cause three to equal one. No one denies that Trinitarians will not for any price abandon the label of monotheism, but virtue of Deut 6:4. However, Apostolics point out that one means one, not three. History has shown that the Trinitarian tradition has indeed expressed itself in artforms showing three distinct deities which are assigned oneness of necessity to remain within the Judeo-Christian monotheistic framework. While a mystery appears when we consider the identity of the humanity (the Son), and who he might have been had a will other than the will of God appeared in Him, we cannot find a distinction between Jesus Christ and the Eternal God who indwelled Him on earth. His comment says it clearly: "I and the Father are one". A prayer encounter with the True God reveals this one God, with the face (personality) of Jesus Christ. Where there is judgment in the Father, and mercy in Jesus Christ - so the scripture reveals Judgment committed to Jesus, and mercy in the Father which endures forever. We simply cannot distinguish the deity of Jesus Christ and the Fullness of God.

Contrary to the meaningful conversation which Mr. Boyd alludes to, conversations with aggressively evangelistic Trinitarians who seek to "convert" Oneness Pentecostals reveal that they are not happy to affirm One God, but pause there only to press toward the need for a confession of tripartite personhood.


Mr. Boyd: "If need be, explain to them that the Trinitarian creedallanguage about God existing in "three persons" does not literally mean that there are three "people" who are God. It is rather simply a shorthand way of saying that God eternally exists in three personally distinct ways (who would deny that God is _capable_ of that?)."


Comment: That would be enough to realize an oddity concerning the dogma of trinitarianism. The Bible teaches that God, a Spirit, was manifest in the flesh at a certain point in time. The concept of "eternal sonship" was disputed and denied by CRI's own founder, Walter Martin. If God is capable of existing in three persons (which of course, He is), then He is also capable of dwelling fulling in the Son, and remaining One which is what Bible monotheism teaches.
Wishing to unseat the imagined pride of Apostolics ...


Mr. Boyd: "Most importantly, emphasize as strongly as possible that Jesus Christ is the very center of your faith and life. Oneness Pentecostals honestly believe that _they_ are the only ones for whom this is true. When I as a Oneness Pentecostal first confronted some informed Trinitarians who successfully conveyed this to me, it effectively loosened the grip which my elitist theology had on me."


Comment: It is difficult to argue with Mr. Boyd, as he is advocating for Trinitarians exactly the same experience that Apostolics would. It is not a great problem to realize that people progress in their experience toward God. For example, Apollos was mighty in the scriptures, and yet Aquilla and his wife took Apollos into their care, and taught him the way more perfectly. In Acts 19, the Ephesian disciples were not reprimanded or cursed, but simply presented with the truth of the Apostolic doctrine which they readily accepted. AS we have noted, Mr. Boyd has put his finger on the matter of real importance. An individual who holds his achievement in doctrine as a means to disdain others not as blessed is nothing more than a Pharisee, and will certainly become the target of condemnation in this spiritual pride. The answer to this real phariseeism is to become earnestly subject to the reality of the word, and not to pause in considering one's position relative to others.

Oneness Pentecostals do not believe they are "the only one's saved". They believe there is one way to be saved, and that God has revealed it through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and has both articulated the way and helped us to travel it through the instruction of the Apostles. Oneness Apostolics believe that others must travel on the revealed path of salvation in order to be saved, and that unsaved man, failing to find that gate, will be lost. There is a very big difference between what Apostolics believe and what Mr. Boyd resentfully voices they believe. It bears repeating that Mr. Boyd might very well have held himself in the untenable position of spiritual pride, becoming weak and indefensible as a result.

Let's now look at the theological issues which Mr. Boyd declares are a weakness to Oneness Pentecostals. A quick observation will show them to be some principle distinguishing marks of Biblical Apostolic theology. There are more, and Mr. Boyd would certainly list them if his article were extended. We certainly do not deny that the Apostolic doctrine is not equivalent to orthodoxy, and find it surprising that Mr. Boyd would suggest that every non-orthodox issue was by definition, a weakness. The remainder of this article will not address every issue in detail. Rather, I will answer the contentions simply by scripture and point to the preponderance of excellent material which Mr. Boyd certainly had, and has access to.

"...their belief that tongues is the necessary sign of salvation"

First, the issue of tongues as evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and it's essentiality to salvation.
Mr. Boyd:"1. Oneness Pentecostals believe that unless one has spoken in tongues, one does not _have_ the Holy Spirit (not just the _fulness_ of the Holy Spirit, as certain other Pentecostals hold). And, since a person cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9), it follows that only those who have spoken in tongues are truly saved. This belief is (loosely) based on the fact that speaking in tongues is mentioned in three of the four accounts of people receiving the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts (2:4; 10:46; 19:6)."


This is true. The evidence and Bible teaching exceeds what he lists however. It should also be known that virtually every one of the Classical Pentecostal organizations held in their articles of faith that tongues is the unique, universal and apostolic evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Insomuch as it cannot be shown from scripture that there is another means of the impartation of the Holy Spirit for it's subsequent indwelling and abiding, the belief in the essentiality of the Holy Ghost baptism has grown stronger with passing years.
We have seen that nothing except ...
  • an absence of belief in the promise
  • an absence repentance, or
  • a lack of hunger for God
prohibits any individual from receiving the Holy Ghost exactly in the manner depicted in Acts 2.
Mr. Boyd: "The Oneness Pentecostal position frequently results in sincere believers "seeking for the Holy Ghost" for days, weeks, and even years (I've seen some die yet seeking!). These poor souls are literally begging God to save them. The reason they do not receive the Holy Spirit, and hence salvation, is presumably because they lack sufficient faith, or they have unacknowledged sin in their lives. In a loving way, ask Oneness Pentecostals if they have ever wondered why there is no biblical precedent for this sad phenomenon (I assure you, they have!)."


Answering from the end, it is not secret that church goers often fail to apprehend that unrepented sin comes with consequences. Boyd's comment might be examined from the standpoint of asking what effect unrepented sin might be expected to have under another "Christian" system of doctrine.

In describing the revival at Samaria, Acts chapter 8 clearly distinguishes the experience of believing in Jesus Christ and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. These individuals spent a period of time after their mental
and emotional experience before they received the promised Spirit. The same is true of the Ephesian disciples who Paul asked "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?"
The early church waited in a sitting position on the day of Pentecost for the outpouring of the Spirit. When it came, the house was first filled, and then the disciples, Mary and 108 others received it.
Actually, Mr. Boyd, being a poor student of the scriptures wondered. To one who finds the bread of life "profitable for doctrine", the need to "receive" is evident.

It is also true that people who are inhibited for one reason are another do sometimes become "chronic seekers" but this is the rare exception. This last Friday night in Morgantown West Virginia, I saw a man who had been seeking the Baptism of the Holy Ghost for over 30 years, receive a wonderful experience with his personal Pentecost. At the same time, 35 or so people many of whom had NEVER been around a Pentecostal service were also filled with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
I cannot say whether Mr. Boyd received the experience or not since he does not testify in this article. It was a period of six months after I began to seek God that I finally surrendered to Him and let His Spirit take control, and I was "born of the Spirit""Why is salvation so "easy" in the Bible? And if sinners must first believe "sufficiently" and cleanse themselves "sufficiently" in order to receive (as a reward?) the Holy Spirit, why does the New Testament portray faith and sanctification as the _result,_ not the basis, of receiving the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:3; Rom. 15:16; 2 Thess. 2:13)?"

Comment: There is a great difference between repenting and believing, and being sanctified. Mr. Boyd is correct in asserting that sanctification is the result of the touch of God. However the Spirit of God is received by faith, and only by those who obey God, believing on and worshipping Jesus Christ (Gal 3:2, 14; Acts 5:32).
Mr. Boyd refers to salvation as "easy", thereby suggesting that the Acts 2-style Pentecostal experiences described in the Bible were difficult! Does anyone read Acts 10 and find Cornelius' family having a hard time receiving the Spirit? Undoubtedly The repentance experience by many residents of Jerusalem was harrowing on the day of Pentecost as they cried "What shall we do" (loosely interpreted "How can we get out of this?"), but God is the one who declared that the crooked paths must be made straight, not us. Repentance is the only path to God, and that is generally held throughout classical Christendom.

Mr. Boyd:2. The "tongues" doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism is a doctrine based entirely on a historical record, not on an explicit teaching.
Comment: That is untrue. Tongues figures as
  • a fulfillment of prophecy (Isa 28:10-12)
  • a demonstration of control of the most unruly member (James 3:8)
  • a means of communicating in the Spirit (1 Cor 14:2)
  • an audible sign (John 3:8, 1 Cor 14:22)

    The historic record demonstrates the prominent place which the early church gave this phenomenon in their practice and experience, as it is the record of what GOD did, and what the Apostles observed.
Mr. Boyd:"Explain to your Oneness friend that by all recognized scholarly standards this constitutes very unsound hermeneutics (Bible interpretation). One can no more base a doctrine about the necessity of tongues on a historical report about tongues than one can base a doctrine about the necessity of communal sharing of property in the church on Luke's historical report about it in the early church (Acts 4:32-37). To say _that_ something occurred is very different from saying that this something _should always_ occur."


Comment: According to the historic record, this was something that the Apostles believed should always occur. (Acts 10:46; 11:15, John 3:8, Mark 16:17)

Mr. Boyd:"Ask the Oneness Pentecostal why -- if it is in fact so clearly taught in the Bible that salvation itself hangs on believing it -- no one throughout church history has ever arrived at the Oneness Pentecostal position on tongues until the twentieth century?"


Comment: Would it surprise Mr. Boyd if he found that he was not the only one unfamiliar with the numerous remnants of records of "tongues speakers"? Histories of peoples who were persecuted and destroyed by powerful religious orders of the middle ages are somewhat scarce, but not nonexistent. In any case, while Mr. Boyd's sense that none had discovered the Pentecostal experience is in error, we soberly remember that the Lord admonishes seeking truth without praise for the majority, or the traditions of men.
The historic record indicates that those seeking a deeper experience in Jesus Christ have regularly experienced utterances in tongues they did not learn or understand. If we were only commending that the seeker of God ought to seek a deeper experience, we would not be in error to see tongues as significant. But, knowing humanity, it is wise to remember that people are self-satisfied, and the "deeper experience", from their relative perspective of ease, may well be a narrow escape of hell.

Mr. Boyd: "3. If your Oneness Pentecostal friend persists in maintaining that Acts is a blueprint for all church history, ask him to show you where in the Book of Acts does one find _individuals seeking_ for the Holy Spirit and _expecting to receive tongues_ as the sign that He's come? This is the standard way the "baptism of theSpirit" occurs among Oneness Pentecostals, but it has no parallel in Acts."


Comment: This demonstrates my proposal that Mr. Boyd was, while in the Apostolic church, a very poor student of scripture. If he were properly familiar with scripture he would not make this comment. Acts 10:46 shows clearly that Peter and his ministry team was surprised but convinced that Cornelius and household had received the Holy Ghost. The evidence was the manifestation of tongues, exactly in the manner which they had experienced in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, and many times thereafter. Since the occurrence is significant as regards the experience at Pentecost, Jesus prediction (Mark 16:17), the issue of the sound all foreshadowed in anticipatory conversation, all amounted to accounting tongues as that sign which they would look for thereafter.

Mr. Boyd: "In Acts, the Holy Spirit always falls on entire groups who are not expecting tongues (or any other sign). So the Oneness Pentecostals do not even follow their own (misguided) hermeneutic."


Comment: Mr. Boyd's intent is unclear here. Certainly his reference to scripture is not exactly correct. If Peter and John prayed for the Samarians with expectation of knowing when the people had received the Holy Ghost (such that it impressed Simon barJesus enough to want to buy the power), as Paul did at Ephesus (Acts 19) it stands to reason that they knew what they were looking for.
Now, if his point is that people received the Holy Ghost without expecting the tongues, yes, that is true. It is an unfortunate error that some have taught that one must seek after the sign, rather than to fervently praise and worship the Lord Jesus submitting to the Spirit, and then experience the baptism of the Holy Ghost. We would agree that this "cart before the horse" conception is wrong and detrimental to the seeker, but - the fact is, people still get it. I tell people that they WILL speak in tongues, so that they allow it to happen and don't "clam up" upon the strange feeling of the Spirit dominating their tongues. The idea is "Its all right! Let God have his way and don't be embarrassed!"

Mr. Boyd: "This insight was a wound to my pride as a Oneness Pentecostal, for the belief that "we alone do it _just like the Bible says"_ (!) is the essence of the Oneness Pentecostal position"


Comment: Mr. Boyd's experience with spiritual pride comes into the picture again, but this time in the first person. We are commended by the same scripture and same Lord who leads us in the path of salvation to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". There is no place for "we alone do it" thinking, though it may be true. We are in this world for a witness of truth, and do not suppose that God disdains those who have not yet experienced the fullness of truth. We, being His servants, certainly cannot please Him while maintaining such airs.

Boyd's accusation of the Oneness denial of the preexistence of Christ

" (1) Unlike orthodox Christianity, members of the United Pentecostal Church and other Oneness groups do not believe that Jesus existed as the Son of God from all eternity. Since they deny that there are three eternal persons in the Godhead, the only sense in which Jesus could have existed prior to His human birth in Bethlehem is either as God the Father or as an idea in the Father's mind (viz., as an aspect of God's foreknowledge)."


Comment: We do not deny the pre-existence of Jesus Christ. We do believe that the sonship commenced at Bethlehem when flesh was made from the nature of a woman, to be a vessel for the Eternal God to dwell in. With the ancients, we say that Jesus was fully God and fully man, but one person, as Jesus said "I and the Father are one". We see no evidence of a plurality of individuals in the godhead throughout the Old Testament, and neither did the Jews.

Mr. Boyd: "This position is central to Oneness theology, but it is easily refuted by pointing out to Oneness believers that there are many places in Scripture that clearly speak of Jesus as existing _with_ (not _as_) God the Father prior to His earthly existence, and _not_ as a mere idea in God's mind! For example, John 1:1 explicitly identifies "the Word" (Jesus Christ, v. 14) who is God and who from eternity is _with_ God."


Comment: The word "logos" applied in John 1:1 refers to the expression of God, and the pattern by which all creation was made. In the sense that God is the essence of truth, and reveals Himself in self-expression from the foundations of time, God's word is indeed eternal. In Jesus Christ the word is manifest or imprinted for all to see and know in the flesh of mankind.

Mr. Boyd: "This could not refer to a mere idea in God's mind since the Word _is_ God (and God is certainly no mere idea)."


Comment: Exactly! Neither was it an offspring. What Mr. Boyd is left with is the conclusion that ancient scholars improperly considered the logos to be a "person".

Mr. Boyd: "Moreover, the same one who was "in the beginning" and who is creator (can a mere idea create?) is said to have come to His own world and to have been rejected by it -- an unambiguous reference to the _real_ Jesus Christ (vv. 10-14)."


Comment: Mr. Boyd was must certainly have been taught that God and God's Word are not distinct beings. The identity of Jesus Christ is indeed that of the creator, but this in no way implies a pair of characters in eternity past. God's persona; expression finally appeared in His own creation.


Mr. Boyd: "In this same context we find John the Baptist referring to Christ's real preexistence (John 1:15, 31), as well as Jesus Himself making reference to the same thing. Jesus notes how He shall ascend up to the Father where He was "before" (6:62). He says, numerous times, that He has "come forth" from the Father, is "going back" to the Father, has "come down from heaven" and "come into the world" -- all statements which clearly presuppose that He _really_ existed with the Father prior to His earthly birth (John 3:13, 31; 6:33, 38, 41, 46, 51, 57-58; 8:42; 13:3; 16:27-28)"


Comment: It is hard to understand the dilemma. Jesus Christ has pre-existence in His deity. By virtue of deity alone, Jesus innermost nature is not temporal. It is eternal. He is God forever, and came forth from the Everlasting one, appearing in this world in time and space, a temporal man, by the miracle of incarnation.


Mr. Boyd: "In conjunction with these verses one should lead the Oneness believer through a careful reading of such passages as Colossians 1:16-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2-10 which clearly speak of Jesus as the Son of God creating the world. From my own experience as a Oneness believer, I can assure you that these verses are extremely troublesome to the Oneness position".


Comment: This is amazing! These scriptures are the meat of the Oneness doctrines! Boyd's experience and understanding was subnormal, to say the very least. Pastors should study this comment and make an effort to conceive how such a shortcoming could persist in a person under their ministry.

"...Their belief that Jesus was the Father as well as the Son;"

"The most forceful response to the Oneness claim that Jesus is the Father as well as the Son is to simply point out how contrary this belief is to the general teaching of the New Testament."


Comment: We would indeed welcome instruction if the mutual identity Jesus Christ and the Eternal God were only know by rote understanding of dogma. However, it is the New Testement which draws us to inquire about the identity of Jesus Christ. Thomas and Philip both learned the answer from the source of our New Testement. Jesus did not reveal a distinction from God when the Father was sought after. Thomas conclusion that He is Lord and God is a good starting point for anyone still anxious about Jesus identity. So far as we can see, the New Testement did not introduce two additional individuals into the godhead.


Mr. Boyd: "Help your Oneness friend to see that, while Jesus is never once explicitly called "Father" in the New Testament, He is explicitly referred to as "the Son" (of God, of man, etc.) over 200 times. What is more, the Father is referred to as distinct from Jesus the Son throughout the New Testament over 200 times. And over 50 times, Jesus the Son and the Father are juxtaposed within the same verse."
Comment: One again, Mr. Boyd's own misunderstanding of the Oneness theology comes into view. We concur that the visible presence of God to whom Jesus refereed as "the Father" is distinctly the Son, that is, the express image of the invisible God (Heb 1:3). If he or others have heard one Oneness Apostolics say explicitly "the Son is the Father", then they have heard an error. We do not say "The Father is the Son", but rather "The Father is in the Son". The Terminology "Son of God refers explicitly to the humanity of Christ. We call the man Jesus, the Christ. In so saying, we affirm that He is not only the inheritor of the name and the Spirit of His Father and source of being (i.e. the One True God), but that his innermost identity is indistinguishable from the deity.

To truly know Jesus Christ, means knowing a God. Jesus, through the scripture teaches the relationship plainly, as it effects our knowledge:"All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him." - Luke 10:22

The identity of "the Father" is not to be presumed. He is known ONLY through the Son. The identity of the Son, if it is conceived to be distinct, is known only of the Father. God has not allowed for any knowledge of God, except as Jesus is the portal to the revelation of Him. All other conceptualization of God, or attempts to ascribe to Him an identity are vain.

Of course, the phrases "the Father" and "Jesus Christ" are juxtaposed throughout the New Testament. The great enlightenment which occurred in the advent of the incarnation was exclaimed by Paul in this way:
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16


For the first time, in the New Testament, God is referred to commonly as "the Father". We notice that this appellation was introduced by Jesus Christ. Generally, the phrase "the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" appears where a full connective juxtaposition occurs. The Apostles were thrilled to know and preach that the Almighty God had been incarnated and revealed before the world in the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who now became all of mankind's access to the once hidden and inaccessible God. In fact, the doctrine of identifying Jesus Christ with God Eternal can be said to be the capital and central doctrine of the Apostolic generation, and Christian religion - according to the scripture.

Mr. Boyd: "Ask your Oneness friend why there is this overwhelming (indeed, unanimous) emphasis on Jesus being the Son of God and being distinct from the Father if in fact Scripture also wants to teach us that Jesus is _Himself_ the Father?"


Comment: The whole message of the New Testament surrounds the arrival of the Son of God in the world for redemption and salvation. As God said in prophecy "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me" - Ps 40:7. Hebrews 11:1-2 elaborates the focus of the New Testament upon the Son: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"


Mr. Boyd: "Why is Scripture so clear on the first point and yet so silent on the second?It is also helpful to point out to a Oneness believer why the arguments they have for the "Fatherhood" of Jesus simply do not hold water. Oneness believers have splendid arguments for the _deity_ of Christ, and this they believe also proves that Jesus is the Father. Reassure your Oneness friends that you fully accept the position that Jesus is Himself God Almighty, but remind them that this does not itself prove that He is therefore God the Father."


Comment: We must remember that the pretense of the existence of a trinity of persons in the Godhead allows for Mr. Boyd to assert that Jesus might be deity and yet not be the Father. Without this pretense of tradition one who determines that Jesus Christ is God to be worshipped, finds no alternative but to identify Him with the Holy Creator, Lawgiver and Judge of all flesh. Clarifying, Oneness theology starts with the irremovable doctrine of One God without reason for division, and sees deity in Jesus Christ by His statements, His works, and His character. We accept the testimony of the Apostles concerning Him. Now, by this we do not arrive at the conclusion that "the Son is the Father", but that the revealed identity of Jesus Christ, and the God of whom he came to testify alongside all the prophet, are one and the sameWe do NOT say that the humanity of Jesus Christ is deity, and with the Apostles, do retain the distinction of the Son and deity.

The scriptures indicate that the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is "the highest name". To enter into the inevitable, though oft denied, subordinatism of plurality we must also qualify passages such as Phil 2:9-11, and Matt 28:18, in effect presuming greater wisdom than the writer.

Mr. Boyd: "What is more, the verses that Oneness believers misuse to demonstrate that Christ is the Father simply speak either of His parental ("fatherly") love (Isa. 9:6; John 14:18), or of Christ's unity with the Father, not His identity as the Father (e.g., John 10:30; 14:7-9)."


Comment: It is only prejudice that allows Mr. Boyd to classify belief as "misuse". Isaiah 9:6 for example says that Jesus would be called the Everlasting Father, pure and simple. Neither God nor His Apostles require that we must borrow from man-made theology to read the Bible. If the prophet said that Jesus Christ is the Eternal Father, then He is the Eternal Father. All subsequent interpretation should be careful to hold the prophets as authority, rather than relegating them to commentators on the later inventions of the religious.

"...Their belief that one must be baptized "in Jesus' name" in order to be saved."

" The Oneness belief that baptism must be "in Jesus name for the remission of sins" can be refuted by four brief considerations. First, at least 60 times the New Testament speaks of salvation by faith alone without mentioning baptism. "


Comment: The indwelling Spirit, repentance from dead works, the atoning power of the blood, and the advocacy of the eternal priesthood of Jesus Christ are all instrumental in salvation also. Like baptism, none are accessible except through faith. Neither are these elements mentioned every time salvation is mentioned, but this in no way relegates the their power and importance to salvation.


Mr. Boyd: "If baptism is in fact necessary for salvation, why is there this emphasis on faith for salvation but not on baptism in Scripture?"


Comment: There is a undeniable attachment of the remission of sins and the new birth to water baptism through the scriptures. No such shifting of focus can deny that, or attempt to extricate baptism which the Apostles practiced with constancy, from the plan of salvation.


Mr. Boyd: "Second, the phrase "for the remission of sins," used by Peter in Acts 2:38, is also used to describe John the Baptist's baptism (Luke 3:3; Mark 1:4), but noone supposes that his baptism literally washed away people's sins (why would they need to later be rebaptized? Cf. Acts 19:1-6). The word "for" in the Greek (_eis_) need only mean "with a view toward," for we know that the Jews baptized people "for" such things as "freedom," "God's justice," etc"


Comment: Having investigated this issue extensively, I must agree that "The word 'for' in the Greek need only mean 'with a view toward'". However, the verse is not the final authority on the ordinance of baptism. We have
  • the commandment of Jesus Christ to baptize (Matt 28:19),
  • Jesus' unbreakable connection between believing unto salvation and baptism (Mark 16:16),
  • the record of the apostle's practice, and
  • Paul's testimony. 
There are many, many reasons that baptism is central to the operation of God in conveying salvation to mankind. In a brief article we cannot comment on the conveyance of the name, the laying of hands on the scapegoat, the passing through the water, the adaptive name and so on. Focusing on just two scriptures:
1. "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." - Acts 22:15-16
2. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" - 1Pe 3:21


Modern Protestantism has introduced a definition of faith which is purported to eradicate the effect of "works of faith", disqualifying actions which are performed in response to the grace of God as utterly distinct from program of salvation and useless. However, the apostolic witnesses believe no such thing! Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins calling upon the name of the Lord in baptism. Peter indicated the essentially of obedience to the apostolic call to be buried with Christ, identified by His name, and thus born of the water. Baptism was in the minds of the Apostle's, the circumcision made without hands (Col 2:11), and the sign of the covenant by which the manifold benefits of Jesus' shed blood were applied to ANY believer. James disqualified a pretense of faith without such obedience as dead, like a body without a spirit. (2:20,26). Baptism is the ordained way to "believe God".

Furthermore, remission of sins is accomplished by the power of name of Jesus , in legally connecting to the price of redemption (i.e. the shed blood of Jesus Christ).
Mr. Boyd now addresses the baptismal formula:

Mr. Boyd: " Third, the Oneness insistence that the words "in Jesus name" have to be said over a person while he or she is being baptized is also without scriptural justification. When this phrase is used in Acts (e. g., 10:45-48), it only means "in the authority of" or "for the sake of." It is not a formula (which is why it never occurs the exact same way twice in Acts). We are commanded to do all things "in the name of Jesus," but this obviously does not mean we have to say "in Jesus name" before we do anything (Col. 3:17)".


Comment: The issue here is the meaning and form of Christian baptism. We read the book of Acts as a historical record. It will be addressed below in more detail, but why should the writer continually cite the authority which is already implicit in the act? The important note which Mr. Boyd's objection overlooks is that the authority is that of Jesus Christ, NOT the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and it was so stated publicly.

However, I have noted that Mr. Boyd's objection is not only to the baptismal formula, but also to the nature of baptism. Thus, an answer to the formula issue will be dismissed as overemphasis of an insignificant thing. Realizing this disposition, I point to the scripture:"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." - Acts 4:12
Evidently the Apostle's held to this, and we also insistent that it be known by what name the operations of their faith were accomplished. As we evaluate the fact that Mr. Boyd's objections have left no room for a significant consistent baptismal practice, I have to ask, "What objection is there to showing the same honor and prominence to the name of Jesus Christ as did the Apostle's, if you see no compelling alternative?"


Mr. Boyd: "Again, the Jews baptized people "in the name of" many things (Mt. Gerizim, a rabbi, etc.), but they placed no significance on saying these words while performing the ceremony."


Comment: How is this relevant to the discussion? Perhaps Mr. Boyd would prefer to believe the details of scripture are increasingly insignificant. If so, then ought we to prefer the less significant details of religious tradition?


Mr. Boyd: " Finally, Jesus tells us to baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19), and there is simply no reason to think that Jesus was here cryptically referring to Himself. The fact that next to no one throughout history has understood Jesus to be doing this itself shows that either the Oneness interpretation is wrong, or Jesus is a very poor communicator (and on a point which supposedly affects our salvation!)"


Comment: Jesus is a very effective communicator. We might ask Mr. Boyd how he comes to question whether anything which Jesus said might not effect our salvation in one way or another. After all, Jesus is"God become salvation". We notice that Eusebius (_Church_History_), in quoting Matt 28:19 says "in His name". They may not wish to comment, but we are inclined to believe that modern Trinitarians would not have made the mistake which they accuse Peter and the others of. If they had written scripture we would find at Acts 2:38 - "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". IN Acts 10:48 we would read, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". The visit of Peter and John to Samaria would have been cited in this way in Acts 8: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive he Holy Ghost:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.)

Of course, I have meddled here. The consistent record is "in the name of the Lord [Jesus Christ]". Why does an author whose very acceptance depends on faith, cite the authority for baptism over and over again, while other acts (i.e. anointing prayer cloths, praying, and prophesying) are done without stating the authority for doing so? The reason is that it was the name which brought the offense, because it was the name which was attached to remission of sins, and which abrogated the need of the intercessory Levitical priesthood to offer sacrifices toward atonement. To downplay the preeminent place which the Holy Ghost gave the recitation of the name in association with Christian baptism is irresponsible, and denies the authority and example of both the Apostles and their conveyance.

The Apostles obviously did indeed interpret that the name of the Lord was to be applied. Let's ask this: If Mr. Boyd's classic objection were credible would Matt 28:19 represent a formula at all? Consider:

1. The words "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" ask for fulfillment. This might not be so if Matt 28:19 excluded the phrase "and of the Son". But, above all, we do know the name of the Son. The appearance of a title and preposition here is nothing more that an unbalanced equation. The Christian confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, receiving entry to the everlasting God through his embrace and declaration! (Matt 10:33, Luke 12:8). So, while citation of the "name of the Holy Ghost" is a problem for the Trinitarian, and "the name of the Father" will bring disputes, the Apostolic believes the word, as Jesus said he had come in, and revealed the name of the Father (John 5:43, 17:6) and that the Holy Ghost is no distinct person, but is mutually identified with Jesus Christ (John 14:26). If Matt 28:19 is a formula of interest, the naming of the person (singular) behind the titles applied to that person is an obvious issue. It is hardy cryptic. Peter chose to baptize into that name.

2. If it is contended that "in the name of" does not propose a formula, then neither does Matt 28:19, and consequently, the whole of traditional Christian practice of baptism is not only in error, but baseless.
If it is said that the words "in the name of Jesus Christ", or "in the name of the Lord" are given only to express the authority by which an act is accomplished, the how is Matt 28:19 different? I don't think this answer, often given by representatives of ortodoxy, is acceptable to the same authorities.

Conclusion

All in all, several things stand out from the reading of Mr. Boyd's comments and attempting to make a brief answer to them.
Gregory Boyd's own experience in the United Pentecostal Church is very much in question to me. While CRI may be pleased to have gotten a prize "I was a UPC'er who escaped" subject, Mr. Boyd does not display evidence of the kind of knowledge and depth which is common among most laymen, much less someone of his academic credentials. Specific questions of interest are:
  • What period of time did he fellowship in the UPC?
  • Was he subject and obedient to a teaching ministry for a reasonable period of time?
  • Did he receive the Holy Ghost in a genuine and fulfilling experience?
  • Did he maintain a prayer life, and a harmonious relationship with his church body?
  • Were there deficiencies in the spiritual life of the church or churches where Mr. Boyd fellowshipped?
  • Was Mr. Boyd lifted to a place of more responsibility than he was ready to assume to quickly?
    and finally, 
  • Did he bring controversies with him into his experience, which were never resolved in a spiritual atmosphere?
With an eye to what we can do for the prosperity of the saints entrusted to our discipleship, as Christians, let's focus on the last of these questions.
As a people, we are greatly in need of applied communication skills in the church. Our need of having a shepherd's heart is enunciated in the title of Rev. Ralph Reynolds' book, If the Sheep Could Speak. How many people are allowed to drift in and out of our churches without ever having had a means to explore issues which may disturb them within, but remain hidden, together with a man of God? People do not arrive in the church without preconception, and are certainly not without influences in this very religious climate.
When we look at the continent of Africa, and see the great revivals occurring in contrast to our own harvest field, perhaps it would inspire a reconsideration of the opposition to the gospel. Paul fingers the author of blindness:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." - 2Co 4:4
So many victorious situations projected in the gospel accounts, were not huge evangelistic meetings, but one on one ministry situations, where the truth residing in Jesus Christ was brought into comparison with the god of the residents of this world. At the well, Jesus obliterated the verbal fencing, and broke an ideological standoff by exposing the reality of spiritual thirst. Nicodemus was quickly allowed to remove to a seat of instruction, disarmed of his notion of being "a leader of the Jews". A hated tax collector is given a private audience with the Lord, and a chance to pledge restitution before ears that honored the pledge. Most wonderfully, the disciples came away alone to hear the controversial meaning of his parables. There the effects of the words could make gradual impact, and in the shelter of loving counsel, Peter could grow with minimal hurt.

I fear that we have thrown up our hands in attempting to "people manage" in a realm apart from the instruction in the scriptures. Despite what challenges it brings to a minister's vision of his work for God, the best and in fact the only sure and effective counsel for spiritual growth occurs in sitting down together, and opening the scriptures together. This is where lasting foundations are laid; where mean and women are relieved of seditious and ungodly precepts; It is where trust and harmony are built forming a godly relationship between pastor, or minister and the church body.

The man of God will minister the word of God to those who have need, or he will experience human nature set at enmity with God, within the walls of the church.

I don't write these comments to condemn anyone, but out of concern for the many surprising departures from sound doctrine which have been witnessed. Looking forward to unprecedented growth and revival in these very last times, we expect to be teaching more than ever. In fact one man recently said that we would be doing nothing but teaching, and hungry souls are led to truth by many converging witnesses. If that is true, then we had better acquire an understanding of what happens in the lives of people like Gregory Boyd and find enough compassion in the Holy Ghost to rediscover the power of the taught word of God and rescue the slipping soul.

Did Jesus Pray to Himself


Did Jesus Pray to Himself ?

by J.L. Hall

Jesus' prayers open our understanding to the majesty of the Incarnation, for through them we grasp the divine-human relationship between God and His Son. Trinitarians often refer to statements Jesus made about His father, including those in His prayers, in an effort to prove that two persons were involved - who they identify as God the Son and God the Father. Since they reason that only persons and not natures communicate with each other, they regard the prayers as clear evidence that Jesus is a separate person from "the Father". Moreover, they cite Jesus' remarks about the Father as scriptural support for the Trinitarian theory. However, the prayers and remarks by Jesus destroy any concept of God as being a trinity of co-equal, and co-existent persons.

The Bible clearly distinguishes God the Father from His Son. The Son was born in Bethlehem, but the eternal God does not know a beginning. The Son grew into maturity - physically, mentally, socially, and spiritually. He became tired, hungry, weary, sleepy - just as other men. Although He did not commit sin, He was tempted in all points as other men are tempted. He suffered from the trials in Jerusalem and died on the cross-just as the two thieves also died. God does not grow, nor can He die. These facts alone clearly distinguish the Son from the Father.

The Bible tells us that the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men (I Timothy 2:5). God is one, but a mediator serves more than one - He stood between God and mankind, effecting reconciliation. Only as a man could Jesus be our sacrifice, mediator, advocate, and high priest, acting on our behalf for our justification.

Jesus offered Himself as a spotless lamb to God. Having lived as a human being, He offered the blood from His own body as the basis for the forgiveness of our sins. God did not die on the cross, nor did a divine eternal person offer blood from a divine eternal body. As the Son of God Jesus offered His own human body and His own earthly blood to God. The distinction between God and His Son can also be seen in the events after the crucifixion. God raised Jesus from the dead (Romans 10:9, Ephesians 1:20), gave Him all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18), made Him Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and exalted His name to be above every name in heaven, on earth, and beneath the earth (Philippians 2:9). If the Son had been a co-equal person in the Godhead, this exaltation would not have been possible, for He would have had these positions and attributes from eternity. It is evident, therefore, that the Son of God was not a second divine person in the Godhead.

Biblical facts reveal that Jesus lived as an authentic human being, that He did not merely assume the appearance of flesh (1). Therefore we should not be surprised that He prayed to God, seeking strength, guidance, and assurance. Moreover, we should not be surprised that Jesus had a will distinct from God (2), that He was truly human in spirit and soul, that He possessed a self-awareness of His humanity. We are not to suppose, however, that the human Jesus was not different from other people, for only He was begotten by the Holy Ghost. God was His immediate Father. He is rightfully called the "only begotten of the Father". His miraculous birth meant that His humanity was not tainted with the inherited sinful nature of the Fall, and through Him God could reveal Himself to us in redemptive love.

Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation. His prayers were not those of one divine person to another divine person of God, but those of an authentic human praying to the one true God. Prayer is based on an inferior being in supplication before a superior being. If the one praying is equal in power and authority to the one to whom he is praying, there is no genuine prayer (3). A conversation can be held between two equals, but an omnipotent person does not need to pray for help from an equal. Even intercessory prayers are meaningless unless the one praying is inferior to the one to whom he prays (4). If he were of equal power, knowledge, and wisdom, he could take care of the needs of those for whom he prays without asking help of another. If Jesus prayed as "God the Son", then God the Son is inferior to God the Father. But such inferiority destroys the Trinitarian theory (5) In submitting His will to the Father, Jesus confessed that His will was inferior: "Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). He also stated the he did not seek to do His own will, but the will of the Father (John 5:30). If the Son had been an eternal divine person sharing equal power and knowledge, and wisdom with two other persons in the trinity, His will could not have been inferior to theirs.

Jesus also stated that the Father was greater than He was: "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). It is absurd to say that this statement was made by a co-equal, eternal person in a trinity. Jesus was not speaking as God, but as the Son of God. Moreover, Jesus said, "the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise" (John 5:19). He credits the Father as the source of His works, as having the power to give life, and the authority to execute judgment (John 5:19-30). If the Son were an equal person in a trinity, He would have these attributes innately within himself; He could not derive them from a superior Father6.

But we should not suppose that His humanity detracted from His deity. Jesus was not the incarnation of one person of a trinity, but he was the incarnation of the fullness of God - everything that God is was in Him. Thus the Bible says the "God was manifest in the flesh" (I Tim 3:16) and that "in Him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). As God incarnate, He identified Himself with the Father: "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30; 31-33);

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him ... he that has seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-9). As God with us, Jesus revealed His deity, identifying Himself as the God of Abraham and the One who revealed Himself to Moses as the I AM (John 8:24, 58).

Jesus was both God and man. Although this union is sometimes referred to as God-man, this term may be misleading, for it may lead some people to think of Him as a demigod. On the other hand, it is equally incorrect to refer to Him as a anointed man. Although quantitatively God cannot be confined to a body, qualitatively he could reside in a body. Neither was Jesus a part-human, but he was man in the full sense. He was fully God and fully man. He possessed both the nature of God and the nature of man. He was aware that He was He was God and that He was man. He could and did speak and act as a man, and he could and did speak and act as God. As a man, he did not know the day or hour when the Son would come in power and glory (Mark 13:22); as God he forgave sins. Both His humanity and deity, although fused into His one being, remained distinct within His one personality. Admittedly, the Incarnation is a mystery beyond the comprehension of the human mind.

Did Jesus pray to Himself ? No, not when we understand that Jesus was both God and man. In His deity Jesus did not pray, for God does not need to pray to anyone. As a man, Jesus prayed to God, not to his humanity (7). He did not pray to Himself as humanity, but to the one true God, to the same God who dwelled in His humanity and who also inhabits the universe. No further explanation is given, and none is needed. Does Jesus pray now since his exaltation ? The answer is no. He prayed in the days of His flesh (Hebrews 5:7). The work of the mediation was finished through His death on the cross at Calvary (Hebrews 9:14-15). There is no more sacrifice for sins, for once and for all time His blood was shed for the remission of sins (Hebrews 10:12). Unlike the Old Testament priests, he does not continually offer sacrifices for sins. There is no more offering, but there remains remission of sins for those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:18, Acts 2:38). His present role as intercessor consists not only of daily prayers but the application of the benefit of the cross to our lives (Romans 8:34; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:1-2).
Jesus said, "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:26-28). Jesus does not pray now, but as God He hears and answers prayers prayed in His name.

(This article appeared in the July issue of the Pentecostal Herald. The footnotes did not appear in the original, and were added by the editor)
_______________________________
1. That is, he was not a phantasm, as some Gnostics held. Jesus was quite real, from birth to death.
2. As a man, while in the flesh
3. In recent years, heretical teachers have often exploited a basic misconception of the nature of God and man in proposing a form and attitude of prayer not demonstrated by scripture. Examples include K. Copeland, F. Price, and others in the "Word of Faith" movement, such as graduates of Hagin's Rhema Bible school. In the imbalance resulting from improper understanding, these people have suggested both the "commanding of God" as "co-equal heirs with Jesus", and that Jesus was indeed, no different that "born-again man". In the editor's opinion, all such distortions clearly conclude in blasphemy.
4. In the quality of inferiority, the author does not include voluntary submission. A prayer to a saint, or angel is therefor without Bible basis, except as a petition to one in authority. We are not led to believe that ascended saints have more authority that those who are flesh bound, on earth, thus there is no support given for prayers to heavenly powers, other than to God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ.
5. Thus we agree that the scriptures do not teach subordinatism, such as do neo-Arians.
(6) Seeing numerous proofs that sonship is not in equality with fatherhood, the question must be asked, "In what dimensions then is the Son equal to the Father, if distinct, or does such equality only pertain to those aspects in which the Father and Son are indistinct ?"
7. While some contend that this suggests that Jesus is schizophrenic, or split in personality, once again, it is important to understand the difference between nature and person. We are also reminded that Jesus, as man, set the pattern for all "followers of Jesus" who would through the new birth become and abide as sons, or children of God. His prayer illustrates the prayer of all who are of a human nature.
_

Thursday, September 15, 2011

Testimony of two men

Paul admonished the church in Corinth with this principle of more than one witness using himself as an analogy.
John 8:17-18
17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.18I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me

2 Corinthians 13
1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established
.2I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare
:
If Paul being a Jew who understood the law of witness, and make a statement like these in his letter to Corinth, it makes it easier to understand that God do-sent have to be two or three do accomplish His will but He can do it with the number of His human intervention not number of persons in Godhead.

Paul is one person and yet he claim to have established the rule of witness, read: 2I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:

See Dr. David K. Bernard book Oneness of God P.189-190)

Wednesday, September 14, 2011

Definition of Persons and Being according to James White

“Being is what make something what it is Person is what make someone who they are we recognize that distinction everyday as we look into the audience.”

A careful observation of James White definition clearly shows that his claim of One God really not what he actually perceive. He made a connection between the persons in his definition to the audience. I’m curious if He could admit that the persons of the God are as separate as the persons in the audience?  How does he define One when he has compared the father Son and Holy Ghost to as those who were present in the crowd.  To me that is rather un-flattering statement and outright Poly theistic view..
  With these profound  understanding of what he really believe  concerning the persons in the Godhead he has revealed his doctrinal flaws and why he is not a monotheistic but a polytheistic believer.  I’m a person and also a human being and so is everyone in this group. We are persons too and each of us is human beings. If we were being asked by anyone how many human beings are there participating in this group? It will be deceiving to say, “There is one human being but many persons. But rather,  the true statement would be, there are many human beings in this group. Each human being is a person but many humans in here not one.”

Footnote:
1. James White and Robert Sabin Debate on Trinity... http://knowaboutchristianity.org/trinity-vs-oneness-debate-part-1-white-vs-sabin/

Saturday, August 20, 2011

Yahweh, Yashua, or Jesus?


In recent years a group known as the Assemblies of Yahweh has placed an unusual emphasis on the spoken pronunciation of the name of God. The AY maintains that God's true name is Yahweh and that salvation comes specifically through this name...
Members of this group also assert that the name of the Son of God must be pronounced as Yashua. Any other form, such as lesous (Greek) or Jesus (English), is unacceptable. They say that the name Jesus was derived from the names of the Greek gods Zeus and Dionysus, because the last two letters of each name are identical. One of their writers has even alleged that the name Jesus means "the pig;' because Je supposedly means "the" and sus supposedly means "pig".
Scholars generally agree that the original Hebrew pronunciation of the Old Testament name of God was Yahweh or something similar; certainly the pronunciation Jehovah is a later English construction. Most scholars also agree that in New Testament times the Hebrew or Aramaic pronunciation of the name Jesus was Yeshua (not Yashua) and that this name is identical to the Old Testament name Joshua. Let us analyze the position of the AY, then, in the light of Scripture.
First, the AY does not attribute full deity to Jesus Christ as the Bible does, but it speaks of God and Jesus as if they were two separate persons. Its view of Jesus is similar to that of Jehovah's Witnesses; both use the designation C.E. (Common Era) instead of A.D. (Anno Domini= in the year of the Lord), apparently because they do not want to acknowledge Jesus as the supreme Lord. The AY exalts Yahweh as the
highest name of God, not realizing that the New Testament provides us with a greater revelation of God and His name.
Yahweh of the Old Testament manifested Himself in flesh to be our Savior in the New Testament. The name Jesus incorporates the revelation of God contained in both testaments, for it literally means "Yahweh-Savior" or "Yahweh is salvation."
Although others have borne the name Joshua, Yeshua, or Jesus, Jesus Christ of Nazareth alone truly personifies the meaning of that name. He was "God with us;' (Matthew 1:23), who came to "save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21), and "in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). Consequently, the name of Jesus is the only saving name, the highest name ever known to humanity, the name at which every knee shall bow, the name that every tongue shall confess, and the name in which we are to say and do all things (Acts 4:12; Ephesians 1:20-21; Philippians 2:9-11; Colossians 3:17). For this reason, the Early Church baptized in the name of Jesus, not in the nameof Yahweh (Acts 2:3)
Second, the AY wrongly attaches saving efficacy to the pronunciation of God's name in a certain way-to the vibrations of sound waves. In actuality, the significance of the Name rests in its meaning. It is
effective because of the One it represents, and it is effective only when we have faith in the One it represents. When we call the name of Jesus in faith, He responds to our cry and performs a work in our lives.
This is what the Bible means when it says we receive healing and salvation through the Name: "And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong" (Acts 3:16). "Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:4-3). Answers to prayer did not come to the Early Church because of a certain pronunciation of the Name, but because they invoked the Name in faith.
The seven sons of Sceva attempted to cast out demons by calling on the same name that Paul used with success. They could not cast the demons out because, unlike Paul, they did not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (Acts 19:14-17). Their problem was not faulty pronunciation but deficient faith.
A study of human language and speech shows that it is a mistake to attach saving efficacy to a certain pronunciation of the name. No one pronounces words exactly alike; voice prints are as unique as
fingerprints. Even if we could be certain of the original spelling of the Old Testament name of God, no one can know the exact pronunciation that the ancient Hebrews attached to the individual vowels and
consonants. Moreover, ancient Hebrew had different dialects, and in one of them there was no sh sound in certain cases (Judges 12:4-6).
If salvation depends upon exact pronunciation, what happens to people with speech impediments, accents, or dialects? What happens to people whose languages do not contain certain sounds? For example, Greek does not have an sh, and Korean does not have a final s sound.
Third, the position of the AY would require us to reject the new Testament that we now have, including all known manuscripts and versions. The Greek New Testament, including all ancient Greek manuscripts in existence, uses the name lesous. The AY has to maintain that it was not written by the apostles or the Early Church, for if they used lesous in even one passage, then the AY position is disproved.
While a few scholars believe that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic, it is impossible to maintain that the entire New Testament was so written. The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were
written by a Gentile, Luke, to another Gentile, Theophilus, and it is unlikely that either of them knew Hebrew or Aramaic. Paul wrote his letters to Gentile churches. Clearly, these writers used Greek.
Moreover, a study of New Testament style, grammar, idioms, and vocabulary demonstrates that Greek was the original language.
For the AY position to be correct, Jesus, the apostles, and the Early Church would have had to use the early Hebrew name Yashua and never any other variation, even when speaking or writing in the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek of their day. We do not have a single manuscript or ancient version of the New Testament that does so, and no one has ever recorded the existence of such a manuscript. no scholar has ever produced evidence that there was such a manuscript.
Fourth, the scholarship of the AY is faulty. Webster's Unabridged Dictionary clearly shows that the English name Jesus came from the Latin lesus, from the Greek lesous, from the Hebrew Yeshua. Yeshua, in turn, is a contraction of the original Hebrew name Yehoshua. This long form occurs in Numbers 13:16, and it comes from Yah (a short form of Yahweh) and hoshia (meaning to help," with the later connotation "to save").
To be consistent the AY should not use the contracted form Yahshua, but the original form Yehoshua or perhaps even Yahwehhoshia. Moreover, the formation of the English name Jesus was not due to any sinister motive or meaning; it occurred according to standard rules and developments in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and English.
It is not accurate to say that the name Jesus came from the combination of two separate words Je and sus, supposedly meaning "the pig;' anymore than my name David comes from Da and vid, with the meaning of "daytime video." Moreover, no dictionary says that Je means "the" or that sus means "pig."
The relation of the endings of Dionysus, Zeus, and Jesus is purely coincidental. In the original Greek there is no connection, for the endings are, respectively, -os, -eus, and -ous. (Both eu and ou are diphthongs, which means that the vowels are to be pronounced as one unit and not to be regarded as separate sounds or syllables.)
Fifth, as a practical matter, God Himself honors the use of the English name Jesus. When people pray by using this name in faith, they receive the Holy Ghost, answers to prayer, healing, and deliverance from demons.
In conclusion, the name of Jesus may be pronounced in many different ways in various languages, dialects, and accents. In all of its forms, it means the same thing: the one true God of the Old Testament has become our Savior in the historical person of Jesus of Nazareth. When a person uses the name with that understanding, and with faith in Jesus as Lord and Messiah, then regardless of the language he speaks, his prayer will reach the throne of God and his invocation of God's name will be effective....

Article by. David K. Bernard.

Monday, August 1, 2011

On Mica 5:2



Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

This scripture is used notoriously by trinitarians to prove  the pre-existence of what they claim to be God the Son or second person of the Triune-God

This is a prophetic scripture about the man Christ Jesus who is to be born in Bethlehem. There is no clear evidence that support the teachings of the so-called , the second person of the Triune-God rather its clearly teaches the monotheistic view hold by oneness Christians.
I'll bring out few points and anyone who wants to jump in is more than welcome.


Point one: The writer says, " yet out of thee shall he come forth." This part of the passage speaks of the incarnation of the man whom the bible says that when the fullness of time comes, God sent forth His son MADE of a woman MADE under the law. There are no hints or anything that can point out to the possibility of pre-existant second person of trinity.


Point 2 , "whose goings forth have been from of old." Now,  any trinitarian would quickly jump to this and say that this is a definite proof that this Jesus is from "of old "so therefore He existed prior to the birth in Bethlehem. Is this what the writer intended for the reader to understand? No! The word here is, "whose goings forth ." Comes from Hebrew wordmôtsâ'âh.
{mo-tsaw-aw'} meaning ( family descent.
FAMILY DESCENT! Its not the second person who is from the everlasting but the one that caused the conception is from the everlasting. The man christ Jesus was born in Bethlehem but the originator is God, the very God who dwelt in Him thats why He could say,"The Father in me, He doeth the work."


Point 3
Jehovah here is speaking as a singular being. Theres no indication that there was another with Him but alone, (Me) He didnt speak in Us , we, our etc.


Point 4
he spoke of the messiah in the futuristice sense; " out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be."

Friday, July 22, 2011

Philips Revelation



John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 We got to give Philips some credit for his hunger to know the truth. I think he was trying to reason with all laws given by his forefathers and apply them to the revelation that’s being played in his very own eyes. We don’t hear the rest of disciples asking so I figure they either have it or just being silence for fear of what might confound their own belief structure of who Jesus is. This is exactly what many of us are doing, either were intimidated to ask for fear of what we will find out or too scared to challenged what we’ve always believe on who Jesus is. Philip took courage and asks the lord to show the Father. No doubt in Philip’s mind he was already have preconception on who Jesus is and naturally see more than one just as our friends who hold the doctrine of multiple persons in Godhead.


 His question prompts Jesus to ask a question we should all ask our self and use it as a guide to our conception on who Jesus is. He said, “How sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?” In plain term, how do you create separation of the Father and Himself in your mind? Remember, our words are expressions of what we formulate in our minds that’s communicated by our speech so our listeners could perceive what our minds trying to relay. Jesus knew what he was thinking and He gave him the answer many refuse to hear even now.” “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;”
Many people today are hungry just like Philip; they want to know who Jesus really is and how He related to the Father and HG. They have to see Jesus through the eyes of creeds that were formulated from the councils of the post apostolic church. With this, they already have structural ways of interpretation in mind before they look at the text such as John 17 and quickly see a pre-existent son of God. A lot of them are sincere and truth full in their approach in discussion just like Philip but as long as creeds continued being the major factor and filter of understand of who Jesus is then there is no turning for them.


The revelation of who Jesus is begins when we differentiate the Jesus of the Bible from Jesus of historical Christianity. I’m not saying that there are two Jesus but what I’m saying is that, the Jesus whom the orthodox Christianity has portrayed has been Smothered with blood of the martyrs, as a power seeking, rude and ill treatments caused by those who self proclaimed themselves to be the center of the Christendom and abused its power by solicit the name of God for their own benefits and iron clawed the creeds with the tip of the sword…
    
 Jesus of the bible rebuked peter for using a sword Matt 26:52, He came to seek and save the lost, Luke 19:10, He didn’t come to judge, John 12:47. This is how we should see Jesus not the way the history has painted Him as a warrior, conqueror and an Iron clawed fist ruler who wanted to take over this world.

Much was done by the early church to make sure everyone will agree and follow the doctrine that is agreed on and set forth by the councils. Throughout the century many laws were assembled to forbid anyone to teach anything which is contrary to what Catholic Church (Universal Church) said to be the truth.

 Philip was looking into Jesus through the eyes of his traditions and was confronted with the idea of more than one personality in God. Jesus asked the question and brought Philip back to the reality of one God. We should ask our friends the same, how do you that? A good and honest question for the seeker of Jesus would be something align to what Jesus said, Why do I see distinct personality in the Godhead? Why do I see more than one persons in one being of God? Am I believing this way because I was taught to or is this a structural set interpretation I attained in my quest to know who Jesus is? Can I know who Jesus really is?

The answer would be yes, anyone can know who Jesus is and it can only be revealed to us by Himself if we sincerely and honestly willing to lay down our stronghold and prejuduce and seek Him with honesty. Another thing, One can be sincere in his approach just like Philip but still be misguided in his understanding. We must be willing to accept the truth just like Saul (Paul) .
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 Luk 10:21-22 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

I grew up in an Evangelical Trinitarian denomination, I believed in Trinity until I was 26. It was a general understanding where I grew up. Passed down by traditions, Songs and knowledge everyone agrees on. We just naturally think of God as triune being though we didn’t understand all about it but was hoping someday God will tells us everything. And now I’m glad that I got the revelation just like Philip. God confronted my thoughts and revealed Himself to me, I saw Jesus only. Someday He says I will be His son and He will be my God and Father..
Revelation 21:7 He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. “ If I will be Jesus son, then that will make Jesus my FATHER.. There is only one Father

There is only one God, whom the OT calls Him Father, for He is the Father of Creation. This one God became our brother by being born into His creation, The Humanity. He was Emmanuel,”God with Us” to reconcile the world to HIMSELF and we named Him Jesus, The Mighty God in Christ…

• Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?